Computer Shopping

[Tristan Avalon]

Hey guys! I know the title is a little misleading - actually, right now I am just trying to do some wish-listing for a new desktop. At the rate money is coming in right now, it's going to be more of a Christmas gift to myself than an immediate pleasure.

So, I've been doing some looking around, and have a general idea of what I want. But I need to know the specifics so I know how much to save. I have a list here of things I want, and things I need to know. I will update this list as I make up my mind. I will also add and take away according to advice.

The items in blue are no longer up for discussion. The items in white (or black, depending on what forum skin you use :p) are what I need to research.

So, a little help please! :)

Hardware
CPU: Desktop
Use: Gaming and Graphic design and Music
Needs a TV tuner
Not all-in-one
Brand?
PC
Operating System: Latest at time of build - as of right now, Vista
Memory?
Ram?
Graphics Card?
Sound Card?
Processor?
Motherboard?
Power Supply?
Hard disk?


Software
Graphic design software? (dependent on type of computer - MAC or Windows)
Office software?
Music software? (I'm liking iTunes right now)

Accessories
Keyboard/Mouse?
External Hard Drive?
Speakers?
Monitor? (if not all in one)
Webcam (if my old one won't work with it)
Headset?

[Vlad Cole]

My recommendation, if you have the confidence, build it yourself. You'll save a lot of money. And it isn't that hard. You just need to be patient. And I am sure we can help :)

And to be honest, searching right now if it is 6 or so months away will do you no good. New technology is always around the corner. However, if you want to do for giggles and curiosity we can help :) Though a rough budget would be nice.

[Tristan Avalon]

I'm trying to get a price range of what to expect - no more than $2500 though, including accessaries. I'm trying to get an idea of what to look for.

As for building one myself, it's doable, but intimidating I'll admit.

[Vlad Cole]

In all honesty, it isn't all that difficult. If you are careful and patient, there are very few things that can go wrong. And I mean very few.

The only drawback from building it yourself is that there is no costumer service to help if something goes wrong later down the road. So you would have to diagnose it yourself, which again, isn't all that difficult to do.

[Vlad Cole]

Operating System:
If you plan on using it for games and everyday use, and if you plan on upgrading parts later on (which you will most likely do), you should go with Windows. Personally, I hate Mac. They are far too simple. So simple that it is insulting. And they are far too restricting. And at the same time, they are no as forgiving as Windows when you do something to system files. However, Mac are known to be better for media editing. Though I don't know why exactly.

As for what version for Windows, I would go with Vista (this is in TODAYs market). I don't know why people hate Vista. I have it and like it. Not to mention if you want it to try top end game, chances are, you'll need DirectX 10.

I would also go with 64bit version of the OS. If you are building a new PC, I don't see why you would use old technology.

A OEM copy of Vista 64bit should run you about $110
A possible location of purchase (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2864283&csid=_21)
You can get the ultimate version for $80 more.




Also, if you are building a PC, you are missing a few parts:

Motherboard
Power Supply
Sound Card
Processor
Graphics Card
Hard Disk Drive (though I think you mentioned it when you said memory)

That is all I can come up with now. Add if I forgot something.

[Morgan Skywalker]

My recommendation, if you have the confidence, build it yourself. You'll save a lot of money. And it isn't that hard. You just need to be patient. And I am sure we can help :)


Yeah, that's what I am planning... I will definitely need help, though. Even after researching the stuff a little, it feels way over my head. :p

I really don't like Macs. There isn't much a Mac can do and a PC can't, but there is definitely some things a PC can do that a Mac can't. Also, Stargate Worlds is PC only, last I checked. That's HUGE! I would definitely get a PC.

As for Vista, I haven't had any problems with it. Its great for those a little less computer savvy - My grandma uses it just fine. :p It does hog some RAM, though, so add an extra 500MB to your RAM total if you choose Vista.

[Vlad Cole]

Half a Gig? Go for broke and do 4-8GB of ram. Besides, I noticed that when a software needs the ram, Vista gives it up. It uses all it can as long as there is no other program that needs it. Not to mention if you switch to a classic theme, it will not use so much ram.

[Morgan Skywalker]

I meant an EXTRA 500MB. Just a tip I got when I was looking at computers a while back. If you want 2GB for a certain program, get 2.5 instead. Like that. Obviously 500MB won't do much these days. :p

*Drools at 8GB RAM* If you gotta spend a lot on something, it might as well be RAM. It probably alters your experience more then anything, other then a good processor. ;)

[Vlad Cole]

Actually no. If I changed from 2GB to 4GB I wouldn't notice a significant increase in power. It is like putting a Cold Air Intake on your car. If you increase your front bus speed and processor, it is like a turbo charger. A graphics card will give you more boost. Which is like adding NOS.

[Morgan Skywalker]

Really? Good to know. Why, then, would you bother to get 8GB, when you could get 4GB and get a better card or processor?

So much for helping Tris... I am getting lessons myself. :p

[Tristan Avalon]

*laughs* That's ok, keep bouncing! I'm just taking it all in :p

As for the MAC over the PC, there is a program for the MAC available at Best Buy for about $80 that allows you to switch between a Windows setup and a MAC's setup - says it's so you can run Window's programs on a mac. You can run both desktops at once in two separate windows or have one or the other full screen.

Does anyone have any information about this?

[Canto]

Vista does not "hog" a lot of memory, there is a missconception there, what it does is cache the memory, this means if you have 100 MB RAM left, and a program you opend needs 200, Vista will be able to give 200.. It's just the way it uses the RAM that gets people confused.

Also, You SHOULD at least have 4 GB ram when your running Vista 64bit, and you can go for 8 GB but I don't see much use in that.


And Tris, dual boot (boot camp) is the program your looking at, it should work just fine but I recommend you buy a PC insted of a Mac, the reason is you listed "gaming" as a requirement, Mac's might be able to run Windows but they come with generic hardware, meaning the hardware is not really designed to game with.

A system that will last for at least a few years is easy to get for 2500$, but I'm not sure about what you ment with "PC+Screen in 1", I'm assuming you ment it like the PC hardware is inside the screen... If so, that is not really a good way, because again it will limit the hardware a bit because you don't have room for most good hardware.

If you want a list of specs/etc someone else can help (I don't have a good source for hardware on english sites). I've at least given you some advice :)

[ShadowPuppet]

If you don't want to read this all, I basically said a Mac would fit your needs, but you can do it cheaper, your way, and for less if you build your own.




If you are crazy about in all-in-one, the iMac is the way to go. They are definitely more expensive than what you could build yourself, but they have a model with an nVidia 8800 GS (by no means top-of-the-line, but more than adequate for SGW).

I dislike iMac's (and Apple in general) because I am a huge proponent of building my own PCs, and, well, you can't really upgrade an iMac. Boot Camp is standard with the OS http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bootcamp.html They just released drivers for 64-bit Windows, so check for that. You probabally were looking at buying software like VMWare or Paralells, which lets you emulate windows inside of OSX, running it like a program. I believe that this emulation software does not support graphic card use, so you'd not want to game with it. (But no problem becuase you could boot into windows and use it like a regular PC).

Software-wise, you said gaming, graphic design, and music. Check out Apple's software- GarageBand is a lot of fun, and very useful. Macs are well-known for their graphical design use, although I'm not in-the-know on what programs are Mac-specific.

I'm more of "meh" when it comes to macs. Hardware is overpriced (although very nice looking), I don't like the restrictiveness of the hardware or OS. They are nice because they "just work."

I'm sure we can all help with whatever you decide to go with.

[ShadowPuppet]

*laughs* That's ok, keep bouncing! I'm just taking it all in :p

As for the MAC over the PC, there is a program for the MAC available at Best Buy for about $80 that allows you to switch between a Windows setup and a MAC's setup - says it's so you can run Window's programs on a mac. You can run both desktops at once in two separate windows or have one or the other full screen.

Does anyone have any information about this?

It was either VMware or Paralells, which let you emulate windows inside of OSX. It lets you run windows inside of the other OS like a program, although it doesn't support a lot of hardware acceleration, and sucks up a lot of RAM.

[Tristan Avalon]

And Tris, dual boot (boot camp) is the program your looking at, it should work just fine but I recommend you buy a PC insted of a Mac, the reason is you listed "gaming" as a requirement, Mac's might be able to run Windows but they come with generic hardware, meaning the hardware is not really designed to game with.

A system that will last for at least a few years is easy to get for 2500$, but I'm not sure about what you ment with "PC+Screen in 1", I'm assuming you ment it like the PC hardware is inside the screen... If so, that is not really a good way, because again it will limit the hardware a bit because you don't have room for most good hardware.

Ah yes, it was Parralells - the program I saw. As for the all in one - that's what the one-peice Macs are called here. The computer and monitor are one unit. My thoughts exactly on the hardware restrictions - wasn't really looking at it but thought I'd ask in case I had a wrong view on it.


Software-wise, you said gaming, graphic design, and music. Check out Apple's software- GarageBand is a lot of fun, and very useful. Macs are well-known for their graphical design use, although I'm not in-the-know on what programs are Mac-specific.

I'm more of "meh" when it comes to macs. Hardware is overpriced (although very nice looking), I don't like the restrictiveness of the hardware or OS. They are nice because they "just work."

OK, I understand. I will probably go with a PC then - the only real reason I wanted a Mac was for security - I heard they were the greatest in that aspect, and they don't lock up like a PC does.

OK, now that I have a better direction - lets focus on hardware. I have a gentleman in my church who builds computers for a living, so I'm going to talk to him as well, and see what he says about what I'm looking for. When you say "build your own", are you talking about the Dell type of peice it together online with a company, or about actually physically building it yourself?

[ShadowPuppet]

Ah yes, it was Parralells - the program I saw. As for the all in one - that's what the one-peice Macs are called here. The computer and monitor are one unit. My thoughts exactly on the hardware restrictions - wasn't really looking at it but thought I'd ask in case I had a wrong view on it.



OK, I understand. I will probably go with a PC then - the only real reason I wanted a Mac was for security - I heard they were the greatest in that aspect, and they don't lock up like a PC does.

OK, now that I have a better direction - lets focus on hardware. I have a gentleman in my church who builds computers for a living, so I'm going to talk to him as well, and see what he says about what I'm looking for. When you say "build your own", are you talking about the Dell type of peice it together online with a company, or about actually physically building it yourself?

The security argument is a bit valid, but, if you aren't completely stupid in what you do online, Windows is really no more of a problem. Windows is still windows, and the lock-ups are still there...no matter XP SP3 or Vista Ultimate 64-bit.

When we say build your own, we mean you buy each piece individually and pop them together yourself.

[Xoloth]

ok, here is from the British market roughly 2 months ago (prices havent changed much):

Ram - 2GB Ram minimum (£80-£110), 4GB if your budget can afford for a 32b OS (64b is the newest however there are not too many programs and games that are compatible with a 64b OS to date). If you want Vista, you will need at least 2.5GB Ram as vista uses 0.5GB on its own (this is the main reason i dont like it). There is a cap of 4GB Ram on a 32b OS so just keep that in mind. Also, look at the speed of the Ram. 800Mhz = good, 400Mhz = bad

HDD - 500GB (£120-£150)will easily do.

Processor - Dual core minimum (£100-£150), Quad core if possible (£160-£200)

Mother Boards - (£100-£160)Ensure this is PCI-E and matches your processor (different types only work with certain processors). If possible get in a budle with Ram sn Processor.

Power Supply - (£65-£90)For big graphics cards 600W+ might be needed but 600W is probably ok.

Graphics Card - (£130-£300) This one all depends on your budget. I recently purchased a G-Force 8800 GTS for £160 and that is easily good enough. Only problem, it is huge inside my tower, so ensure you have enough room for it.

Sound Card - (£20-£50) I usually just buy one of the cheapest as im not too bothered about "perfect crystal clear" sound.

Tower - (£30-£80). Pick one that looks nice and has enough space in it to fit all your equipment and that isn't massively bigger than you mother board.

[Tristan Avalon]

That gives me a good idea of what to look for.

I was browsing Best Buy (who, as it seems, isn't always the best buy :p) and came across this. Again, I wasn't looking for an all in one to begin with, but this seems really cool, and it looks like it meets the specifications of what you guys have thrown out so far. What do you think? It's an HP touch-screen all in one. This is the specs page for it.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8883292&type=product&id=1211587312116&srccode=cii_7240393&cpncode=07-16462794&cmp=KA14525&ref=16&loc=01

[Tristan Avalon]

ON SECOND THOUGHT!

I just built a computer through the Dell website. I wasn't planning on using Dell, due to horror stories, but this is everything I was looking for plus some!

I have added some software and hardware to the package, and it's come up under budget. I know that will change by the time I can afford it, but hopefully that will be because the price will come down some.

This is an All-In-One Gaming computer, complete with added Adobe packages, Movie Studio, and a few other gems. I have strayed slightly from the "build your own", but again, I am still trying to get a feel for what it is I really want and need to look for. Do these specs look right? Is this a good deal?

· XPS One $2152



XPS One:
20 inch widescreen display with Intel® Core™2 Duo E6550 XPS1C4




Operating System:
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium VHP3E




Adobe Elements Studio:
Adobe Elements Studio for XPS™ One ADBES



Keyboard:
XPS One® Wireless Keyboard WLKYBD




Mouse:
XPS One® Wireless Mouse WLMSE




Office Productivity Software (Pre-Installed):
Special Offer:Microsoft® Office Home and Student 2007

DVHSXV

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Hot Deals:
500 GB 7200 RPM USB 2.0 MY BOOK ESSENTIA

A1294959

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Top Selling Software:
Detto Intellimover - Move data to your new PC

A0110110

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Top Selling Software:
Sony Vegas Movie Studio 8 Platinum - Easily create HD videos with drag & drop editing and "show me h

A1444290

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Top Selling Software:
Webplus Website Maker

A1604528

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Top Selling Software:
Dragon Naturally Speaking Standard 9 - Voice Recognition

A0726056

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Memory:
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs

2GB62

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Video Card:
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400 Video Card

X2400

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Hard Drive:
500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™

500S

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Media Reader:
8-in-1 Media Reader Included

MCR8

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Modem and Wireless:
Internal PCI 802.11 a/b/g/n wireless network card included

DWCRD

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Optical Drive:
Blu-ray Slot Load Drive (BD/DVD/CD burner w/dbl layer BD write capability)

BDX

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Sound:
Integrated Audio - 2.0 Speakers

IS

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

TV Tuner & Remote Control:
Hybrid Analog/Digital TV Tuner with Remote Control

TVTWRMC

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Dell Digital Entertainment:
Music Jukebox by Yahoo! Music - Basic 1 Month Trial

SEP

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Bluetooth:
Internal Bluetooth 2.0 Included

INTBLTH

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Adobe Software:
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 8.1

AAREAD

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Optional Support Services:
Dimension XPS, Specialized Support

XPSSUPP

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Security Software:
Norton Internet Security™ 2007 Edition 15-months

VNIS15M

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Warranty & Service:
Get $50 Dell Gift Card with 4Yr InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis

QPRO4OS

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Protection Against Accidents:
Add CompleteCare Accidental Damage Service to 4Yr Lim Warranty

CCADP4

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

DataSafe Online Backup:
30GB DataSafe Online Backup for 1Year

DASF30G

1

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Internet Access Service:
Internet Access Offers from AOL, Earthlink and Netzero

NETZERO

1

Sorry, the chart didn't copy right. I'll clean this up later - gotta get back to work. :(

[petruchio]

Friends don't let friends buy Dell. The reasons are legion, but three spring to mind right off the bat:

1) Proprietary hardware. Dell doesn't build its computers with "off-the-shelf" components, which means that if you are trying to replace, say, a power supply, you have to buy a Dell power supply, which will cost you approximately twice what you would pay for a standard ATX psu. The disk drives, the motherboards, even the memory on some models... all are proprietary and all cost a ridiculous amount from Dell.

2) Customer service. It used to be Dell's forte, but they have gone right down the tubes in recent years. If you want support, be prepared to waste a lot of time before getting the right answers to your questions (read: hours).

3) Cost for similarly equipped systems. Dell still sells a laptop for $499 that includes a gig of ram and a Celeron processor. HP hasn't had a Celeron in its lineup for a year and a half. And HP Compaq laptops sell for under $500 all the time, if you watch for sales.

With respect to building your own, you can save a marginal amount of money, but there are a couple of things that make building your own desktop machine rewarding: first of all, you can select only the features you want and dispense with the rest. Don't think you'll use Firewire? Don't buy it. Don't think e-SATA is something you'll exploit? Axe it from the list. Want four terabytes of storage in a RAID 5 config? Cool, you can do that. And second, you get the ultimate satisfaction of saying, "It's a <<insert your name here>>" when your friends ask you what kind of computer you have. You made it with your own two hands. It's a great feeling.

[Rogue Five]

psst. dont do that. save yourself money.

go here (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com). save yourself some cash. i personally never bought a computer from it, but its less expensive, and its like buying all the parts and putting it together yourself, but theyre gonna do it. or...

this (http://www.alienware.com/products/area-51-desktop.aspx?SysCode=PC-AREA51-BTS&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT) might be more what youre looking for. now 2 GB might not seem like a lot... but its DDR3 which means its like 2 GB times 3. or 6. i think. and its at 1333 mHz which is good :cool:. i'd recommend this one personally.

and it looks cool.

[MattTheRat]

if you're buying your own, which I think is the best way to go. Check out newegg.com

They have some decent deals and really can give you a sense of what is out there and what components to look for. Even if you don't buy through them, you can get a list of things to look for at your favorite computer store or online store.

If you're in the US and are looking for a good place for computer stuff I highly recommend MicroCenter. there aren't too many around but if you can find one they can have some good deals and helpful staff.

[Xoloth]

i just found a PC that is way way better than that for £400 on ebay with only 10 hours left. sometimes you can find some very nice bargains on there

[Xoloth]

read this website for price ideas;

http://www.dinopc.com/shop/pc/Gaming-PCs-c94.htm

this is one of the PCs from that site. looks pretty good and is a lot cheaper than dell (minus the software tho)

22-102 - SLI Gaming PC - Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600, 4GB RAM, 500GB HD, 9800GT, 22" (http://www.dinopc.com/shop/pc/22-102-SLI-Gaming-PC-Intel-Core-2-Quad-Q6600-4GB-RAM-500GB-HD-9800GT-22-94p409.htm)
£695.98 inc. VAT

[Tristan Avalon]

Ok, decided to build. I've even found the computer case (http://www.xoxide.com/sunbeam-transformer-case-black.html) I want.

So the next piece of equipment would be.... a Motherboard. Any good suggestions as to what to look for?

[Laz]

Ok, decided to build. I've even found the computer case (http://www.xoxide.com/sunbeam-transformer-case-black.html) I want.

So the next piece of equipment would be.... a Motherboard. Any good suggestions as to what to look for?

I'm a big fan of ordering from zipzoomfly.com. I got my entire new PC there, and I've spent well over $15,000 there over the last 6 or so years. As for what Motherboard to get, I'd suggest this MoBo. (https://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007277)

As for the rest of the PC, put together a cart on ZipZoomFly, make it a wish list and post your email addy and we can look it over on ZipZoomFly and make recommendations.

[Tristan Avalon]

Awesome! A new project! :p Will do, and thanks.

[Morgan Skywalker]

*Drools over Tris' uber case* That's AWESOME looking! :p

[Summv]

Tris, I just helped my brother order and assemble his PC. If he can do it, you can!! And his was a very nice PC, for about $600. I am assuming the majority of your budget is for software. I wish I had $2500 to budget for a PC!!

[Tristan Avalon]

*Chuckles* I didn't say I "had" it - I'm basically buying a part with each paycheck. Unfortunately I have two weeks between pay days, and this Friday's has the week I was gone for Honduras on it, so it's going to be rough. I haven't really actually bought anything yet, but I've got the case, power supply,and some cooling systems picked out already.

[petruchio]

Great motherboard, great case. Just be sure that you have enough video horsepower to do what you want it to do. This is a problem a lot of noobs don't figure: after the mobo, and the memory, and the killer processor, it is an absolute necessity to plan on a lot more graphics capability than you think you need right now. F'r'instance, what if you want to play games other than SGW (God forbid)? Granted, right now, a 9600 NVidia is gonna do great, but as we've seen, it only takes one Crysis to throw the Sabo in the gears. My advice? Buy the best hardware you can afford right now, and the software will work itself out.